While we often talk about craft, we don’t discuss publication — which is a journey in itself. After all, once you have a book, then you need to get it out into the world, receive feedback and decide whether to ride that rollercoaster again. We were excited to discuss this aspect of authordom and brought suspense author Danielle Girard, a publishing powerhouse, onto the First Draft Friday podcast. Danielle has been in publishing for more than 20 years, and published 15 novels.
In our half-hour chat, we talked about:
- her journey to publication and her writing process
- her biggest struggles and how she overcomes them
- dealing with rejection and editorial feedback
- agent queries and publishing houses vs. self-publishing
Click below to watch our 30-minute discussion and the questions we answered from the live audience. Keep scrolling if you’d like to read the transcript.
Try out Marlowe, our A.I., who can critique your novel: authors.ai/marlowe/
Check out Danielle’s books on BingeBooks: https://bingebooks.com/author/danielle-girard
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Alessandra: Hello, everyone. Welcome to First Draft Friday. I am your host, Alessandra Torre with Authors AI, and I am joined today by Danielle Girard, and she is a suspense author, and I am so excited to have her on the show. Welcome, Danielle, you want to tell the audience a little bit about yourself?
Danielle: Thank you so much for having me. I’m really happy to be here. I am a suspense author. I have 15 books out. I’ve been in this business for a long time and I have a new … actually a novella coming out, here May 31st, which is a prequel to my Annabelle Schwartzman series. And that’s a series about a medical examiner in San Francisco. So, it’s good to be here. Thank you.
Alessandra: And when did you start publishing? How long have you been – you said 15 books; how long has that been in the business?
Danielle: Yeah, so my first book came out in the year 2000. It’s also the year I had my first child and she’s going to graduate from college, so it sort of gives you a sense of how long I have been doing this. And there’ve been, you know, lots of hiccups along the way, but I’ve been, you know, I’m doing the thing I love and my whole message today is going to be talking about sort of how you stick with it when it’s hard.
Alessandra: When it’s hard, yeah. It’s easy to stay with it when it’s awesome. And this is a topic we haven’t talked about. So a lot of times we’re really focused on craft, but one of the major things that can really influence your craft is your personal outlook and kind of your mental health as you’re writing. So, I’m really pumped to the topic.
Danielle: Yeah, it’s kind of one of my favorite things. In fact, there was somebody just quoted on another platform. I always say this thing is like, the real rule of this business is you can’t quit because you’ll never publish a book if you quit and that is … or you’ll never publish another one. And unfortunately, my dad used to call it persevere of purpose, which was like, you know, it comes from the Lewis and Clark expedition. He was like a historical — he loved history. And it’s true. It is like, you have to be stubborn or occasionally it feels really stupid. You just have to be really like, I just — I’m going to do this. I’m going to do this until I get where I want to go.
Alessandra: And I mean, most published authors I’ve talked to have books that are buried in the backyard. Books that we’ve – in the middle of our career – I just went through this. I wrote a book that I love, I’m really excited about – my agent doesn’t love it. So, for now, that book has to be put aside, which is, it’s heartbreaking, right? I mean, that’s the bring out six pints of Ben and Jerry’s and a bottle of rosé and let me just binge watch Bridgerton. And then tomorrow I will get up and pick myself up. I think you have to give yourself the time to grieve too. I mean, and sometimes the grievance is something big, like a major rejection. And sometimes it’s just, you have a really hard day, right? I mean, you know, you’ve been doing this forever; it can be such a brutal business. And I think largely because you’re alone, right?
Yeah. I mean, there are some friends don’t understand it unless they’re in it. I mean, just because it’s just a totally different mindset and they don’t, you know, they can’t understand and it’s through no fault of their own, they can’t understand unless they’re in it. But let’s go back in time for a minute, because 2001, I think is when you said your first book was?
Danielle: 2000, yeah. August of 2000.
Alessandra: So that’s pre self-publishing, and most of our guests are indie-authors or self-published authors, so can you walk me through kind of that story of how you first got published?
Danielle: Yes, absolutely. So I met a woman when I was just out of college. I worked in finance and I met a woman who wrote romance novels. And I was like, oh my God, I always want to write a book. I grew up in a family where everybody sort of like talked to over each other and we all had stories to tell. So I wrote, you know, I wrote a book on the first — like on page five there was dead body and she was like, you know, this is not going to be a romance novel. So I sort of started out of the gate knowing that I was writing suspense and that was going to be my love. And I think it’s the stakes, you know, there’s no bigger stakes than life and death and the adrenaline and all really … even when I’m writing, sometimes I feel like, oh God, I get so excited with that, with adrenaline.
So I wrote three books and buried them in the backyard, as I like to say, although they’re really not in the backyard. People sometimes ask, really they’re in the backyard now. They’re not in the backyard. I found an agent for my third book, and that actually ended up being the second book we published, but that was my fourth book – the second book I published. And then we sold Salvage Art, which is my first publish book to Penguin Putnam’s Onyx, which was a paperback original. This is pre, not only is it pre, it’s pre Amazon, I mean, it’s pre kind of everything. You know, it’s not quite pre cell phones, but it’s pre a lot of stuff.
My first four books came out with Penguin Putnam, and then I actually took a break because I had little kids and it was a lot to do. And I went back and got my MFA thinking I was going to maybe try something a little bit more literary, which I did, but immediately wanted to kill somebody. I had to go, you know, came back to my genre and then I have self-published in between. So, I’ve had sort of the, every which way, publication career, four books with Penguin Putnam, five books that was the end of the series that started with Penguin Putnam, I did those on my own,, and then six books with Thomas and Mercer who is, you know, they’re traditional publisher-ish because they’re obviously part of Amazon. And now I have this novella coming out, you know, what I love about self-publishing now, since, you know, we were talking to, like you said, mostly an indie author bunch, is that it’s so different than it was because when I did it in the first thing, it was sort of people called it vanity press and you know…?
Alessandra: There’s a big stigma.
Danielle: Yeah, a huge stigma was like, yeah, and now I think that’s so different, and in addition, because there’s so many ways to make your product so professional, I mean, a lot of times you can’t tell the difference between a self-published novel and a traditionally published novel. And to be honest, I don’t think readers care, they don’t care as long as the quality is there, so it gives us so much more opportunities to get our stuff out there.
Alessandra: A hundred percent. So, in your journey, what was kind of the first thing that you found yourself really struggling with in terms of your writing and your author career?
Danielle: Well, I think, you know, the problem, my problem has always been impatience, which I think is actually like if you’re going to have one thing go for you in this career, we should probably be patients because for one, it takes a really long time to write a book. And then it takes a long time to go through the submission. Well, the editing process, then the submission process. Then if that all that goes well, it takes a long time to get to publication and then you have to sort of go back and do the whole thing again. So, I had to learn — I mean, I still struggle with it. I mean, I still struggle with I’m not getting to where I want to be fast enough. The thing I have learned and that I really encourage people to consider is that making the thing into a race. Even like when I try to say I’m going to write a thousand words a day, like sometimes I do that as a way to kind of get through. I still know that writing that many words doesn’t mean I’m necessarily done with my book sooner. It just means the draft of the book hopefully is sooner. But that likely means the editing process is a little longer. You know, you have to just recognize that a book takes what it takes and I’m not a super, you know, I’m not a two books a year. I mean, I think you’re a really fast writer.
Alessandra: I used to be, but now with everything else going on, I’m one to two a year, but the most I ever was, was four to five. And that was when I felt like I was just, I don’t know how some authors do 10 books a year.
Danielle: I don’t know how you did four to five. I sometimes had two, and that is, that felt crazy. So, yeah, that’s impressive. And now you’re right, you’re running a business and it’s a whole different ball wax. But I think if I could have learned patience earlier, you know, that would’ve helped me. The other thing I think is new, you know, because I was young at the time, I mean, I was young compared to my peers in – I mean, I was 29 when my first book came out. So, I didn’t have a lot of like good friends in the world of publishing. The people that I had gotten to know were largely older men. I mean, which is sort of weird, but there weren’t as many women in publishing. It makes me sound like I’m like ancient, but there weren’t as many women in publishing. There weren’t as many young people in publishing. And I think I felt much more isolated. I feel like in like in today’s world, we have all these wonderful ways to, you know, be in a community. And I think, you know, like you said, this is so – yes, Facebook user, you have… I’m so sorry. I mean, otherwise you’re going to probably…
Alessandra: In addition to everything else, they are so many things we have today.
Danielle: I’m really sorry. I do think it helps. I think the sooner we can learn it. And I also think like, you know, everybody does it differently. I mean, even the fact that you know, that Alessandra did, you know, four to five books a year, it blows my mind. You know, we’re not all the same. We’re not all going to do this the same.
Alessandra: And that’s some of the hardest part about, I know for me what I struggled with and still struggle with is comparison. Oh, so it’s like, oh sure, my book was ranked what you want t0 call it, but look at this author, you know, I mean, we’re all here on a scoreboard almost every day.
Danielle: And you know, comparison or what do they say is the thief of joy; that is a hundred percent true. In fact, I just have a really, really good friend and I can’t spill the beans yet, but she just has this amazing deal happened to her. And, you know, it was like, I’ve gotten to that stage in my career, thankfully, where I was like, my first reaction is, that is so amazing is for her. My second reaction’s still there. It’s like, “What, I want that. That would be good for me too.” You know, the thing about this community is that nobody writes enough books, no one person — even the person who’s writing 10 books a year, which is amazing, is not writing enough books for all the readers. So we all have a place in this world and readers want different things and different styles, so I think it’s wonderful that we can find a community and lift each other. Because, you know, I loved, your book, The Last Secret. It’s like, I want to read, you know, and I know a lot of other people want to read enough books that I’m not going to be able to provide that for them, so we need to be — we celebrate one another and it makes the job easier.
Alessandra: We’re not trading cars where people have to choose one, you know, every five years. Yeah, this is a genre. And Mike’s asking what genre you write in. So just to clarify, I know you’re suspense, but what is like, do you have a…?
Danielle: Yeah. So I would say most of my books have a police element, so there’s always a detective in the story. I have two series. The first is the Rookie Club series, which is a group of women in the San Francisco Police. And each book features a different one. So book one is about Jamie Vale and she’s a sex crimes inspector. You know, and then the second book is Cameron Cruz who is a sharp shooter. Or no, I’m sorry, the second book is actually a homicide inspector, then we have a sharp shooter. So, you know, I go through a bunch of different jobs, which is really fun, right? So it’s a series, but not like a tight-tight series. And then my second series actually features a medical examiner. I was pre-med, I applied to med school. My dad was a doctor. I thought for sure, that was what I was going to do until I not want to go to med school, so this seems like a much better option. Talk about having patients. I write across suspense, but largely I think you could call my books, you know, the procedural elements to them. But they’re usually pretty fast paced. I like a page turner kind of book to read and to write.
Alessandra: Yeah. A hundred percent and I’m the same way. And I think some of the things you’ve said are really important and one is the community that is available. So if you’re a new author and you’re watching, or if you’re an existing author, the beauty is, I came in this business in 2012 and I felt like I was on a raft in the middle of the sea all by myself because we didn’t have Facebook groups and we didn’t have podcasts and we didn’t have even YouTube videos. I mean, weren’t all of the resources. Even though YouTube was there, there wasn’t this huge community and library available showing you how to do things and giving you support. So if you do feel alone, join an author community and you can find a local one. I live on a small island with 10,000 people. We have a local authors group. Where you’re at, there’s a local authors group. Like Danielle said, they might all be men, you know, they might write westerns, you know, or something that’s completely different than yours, but you struggle with the same things.
Danielle: You do. You know, I was living in the San Francisco Bay area, now I’ve been mostly in the mountains. And to be honest with you, my group was romance writers. I mean, that was those women, I mean, there were no men, of course, at that time anyway – not surprisingly, I shouldn’t have said of course, because I hope the male romance writers, but at that time was all women and those people actually really got me, you know, they got me through my own stuff with what I was writing. So, it doesn’t really matter. It’s nice to have readers in your genre because of course we understand sort of, especially for, you know, we understand tension and pacing is super important in a suspense novel. But in the beginning I think just having somebody who’s in the trenches, they’re not in the trench with you, but they’re in the trench next door in their own trench and just knowing you’re not alone helps, I think.
Alessandra: Yeah. And you can meet and have sprint sessions together. None of this has to be in person. That’s the additional benefit of the online communities that are here now is you can find your exact subgenre niche online. You can find five groups that are in your sub niche and you can support each other. We do have a great question from Chris on YouTube. And they said, can writers get anything positive out of a rejection letter? If so, what?
Danielle: I mean, I’m sure you feel the same way. I have a red stack of rejection letters that is like, it’s an encyclopedia. I mean, it’s so thick. Now remember, I was submitting books before we did emails, so a lot of mine came back, sometimes written on my …
Alessandra: On your manuscript?
Danielle: No, on my own letter to them. They had written back, you know, and they spent the 20 cents or whatever post back then. But I think absolutely. I think for one you can … sometimes they mention a specific thing about the book. You know, I found the character hard to relate to, the pacing didn’t work for me, this part of it was unbelievable, you know, sometimes there’s nothing. And to be honest with you, sometimes you can … you can’t read into a letter that says I’m sorry, this book doesn’t work for me because you’re like, you don’t really know who that person is. Yeah. Although, you know, I think when you submit to publishers or to agents, I think is probably where we’re all submitting in the beginning, because very few publishers take an agent material anymore, but it’s important to know who you’re submitting to, you know, who do they represent? Are they representing people that you want to be like? You know, are they representing the kind of writer that you want to be? And if so, you know, if there’s something that you can glean from that, like this person represents this author that I think I’m like, and they aren’t seeing it in my book; am I missing the mark somewhere? What’s going on with that? And then you take what you can take and then you have to just move on. That’s why I think as Alessandra was saying, really important to have people who will read your stuff, who will be honest, but not your spouse. I tried that early on. I would give my book to my husband and I was like, you’re fired, like you were fired right away fired. And now, you know, he doesn’t get so involved, which is really good.
Alessandra: Chris said, if a rejection letter has something extra, should we understand that the editor saw something in that?
Danielle: Well, I mean, I think if the editor, you know, remember these editors see a lot of books, so if they say something like, you know, “I appreciated the storyline or the character or even the title,” I had one rejection letter that said — it was my very first book and he was probably correct, but the rejection letter said the title is great and the rest of this stinks. I won’t quote him; he was an agent in New York. I don’t know if he’s even slow down, but it was the title was Murders and Acquisitions, which was a really clever title. And he was probably also right that the rest of it was pretty stinky. It wasn’t very nice. That was definitely an ice cream wine night. But yes, I think it’s fair to take something if they specifically mentioned something, but I think you can’t really do the reverse. So for instance, if they don’t say anything specific, it doesn’t mean they hated every single thing about the submission.
Alessandra: It could have just been, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing if they don’t say anything because, I mean, it could mean you just have kind of a weak book that wasn’t glaring in any way, but didn’t do anything really super spectacular. And I’ve had a lot, my book, The Ghostwriter was rejected, I want to say nine or 10 times it was rejected by every publisher we sent it to. And so I saw published it and it went on to become a Goodreads choice nominee and is one of my most popular books. But it’s funny looking back at the reasons for the rejections and they all gave reasons and one of it is like readers don’t want to read about writers, you know, and that was something I was like, you know what? I disagree with that, so I’m not going to…
Danielle: I mean, Stephen King wrote misery and we all read that, right. So, I don’t know if I agree.
Alessandra: But a lot of them the characters are just too unlikable, you know? So there were a lot of things that were probably valid and I had to decide, do I want to take, but I think if you hear the same thing, three or four times, it’s something you should pay attention to. And are you worth sacrificing this story for that item – is that a hill you will die on? And sometimes it is, and sometimes it’s not.
Danielle: And I think the next question we got on that, should the writer, you know? So the question was – sorry, can I click this? How does that work?
Alessandra: Yeah, I think so. Or you can just tell me what it starts with and I’ll…
Danielle: Should the writer move on from that extra input into … You know, these are all sort of nuanced and it’s up to you. I think it depends on if the editor said I’d love to see another version of this, or if you write something else, please send it to me, then absolutely that’s an invitation. If you don’t get an invitation, like a specific, you know, I’d love to see this book again, you probably need to move on from that editor. I don’t know any editors that would look at a book again, unless they specifically said, I want to see this book if you revise it. So I think that’s the most obvious sign.
Alessandra: Yeah. I agree with this. The editor typically will say, if you made these changes, I’d be willing to take another look at it. They’ll normally open that door for you — that agent or editor.
Alessandra: So that’s great, so that’s a conversation about rejection, which is something that we face a lot. What about when you’re writing the book? Are there points in the books, lifespan, you know, whether it’s the writing, the editing where you’ve come close to giving up on books?
Danielle: For me, I think the hardest part of a book is the first hundred pages. I’ve always felt like – because that’s the part where … I’m not a good outliner. I’m really trying to be better. I’ve always sort of written – been a pantser, and that means you can get almost a hundred pages in and kind of be like, oh God, what mess have I made here? Before you sort of back out. And I oftentimes my out files, so my books end up being about a hundred thousand words and my out files are oftentimes, you know, 70,000 words, which is not…
Alessandra: What’s an out file?
Danielle: Oh, sorry. I use that, I don’t know if that’s an actual thing. That’s my thing. So when I’m writing a book and a scene doesn’t work; instead of scrapping it. I was also the generation where I’d write 40 pages and I would lose it because, you know, computers weren’t as — there was no backups. And so, I love this generation now. I’m sort of the Luddite, in that I save everything. So, if I have an out file, I have a separate file on my computer, or I use Scrivener. So I have an out file, it sits under research, that if something doesn’t work for me, I drag that whole section into my out file and it stays there. And sometimes I look back at it and think, what was I thinking about that thing? And I don’t necessarily move the words back, but sometimes I use it. But in the end, you know, I’ve written practically two books.
So, the first hundred pages is where I learn — is it going to work? And usually I don’t ever scrap the idea entirely, because usually I’m starting with something that I really like, whether it’s a seed of something, like with White Out, it was a seed of a woman who wakes up in a car about to go over an edge, she does not know who she is, she does not recognize the driver, and she can’t get him out of the car, he’s unconscious, so she escapes the car and it goes over. And she’s like, he’s probably dead, I don’t know who I am, was that my husband? And I just thought, oh, all those unknowns are so fun. And so, it’s a matter then of like writing to the point and then deleting and writing and deleting until I know where I’m going. And once those hundred pages are done, then it’s much more straightforward. It’s a messy process for me.
Alessandra: That is a messy process, but that’s part of being a pantser, you know?
Danielle: Yes, I know. I feel like…
Alessandra: I am also envious of those outliners who have everything all scribbled out.
Danielle: Me too. I’m so envious. I’m going to work on that, but you know, 20 whatever book’s in.
Alessandra: One of the thing – the process works… I did want to address Nikki’s question. Would you suggest trying to get an agent rather than self-publish?
Danielle: OK, so here’s the thing about self-publishing, since I’ve done it now in every which way, and you have as well, so Alessandra knows maybe more about this than I do. But my opinion is that the hardest part of self-publishing is the distribution, right, getting people to read your book. I mean, there are those examples, like the Martian, where he self-published that book. And then the next thing, you know, we’re looking at Matt Damon. But he did a lot of swindling of books out of the back of his trunk, which it worked for him. I would not do that. So, I would say it, you know, really traditional publishing still has a lot going for it in terms of the ability to spread the word about your book. I always feel like start traditional and then if it doesn’t, you know, if you can’t find an agent or it doesn’t work out, and you feel like it’s as good as the book is going to be, then put it out there and start again. But know that the self-publishing process in the beginning – I was lucky with self-publishing because I got the rights reverted back to me from those Penguin Putnam books, which is a whole nother thing again, from being a writer before there were eBooks, right. This is how old I am. I’m aging myself. I’m like aging, I’m a dinosaur. But anyway, but I think … what do you think about that question?
Alessandra: You know, it’s tough because first of all, I think both of us are published with Thomas and Mercer, which is an Amazon publisher. And I have to say that I’ve published with Hachette, with Harlequin, with Thomas and Mercer, and Thomas and Mercer really does things differently. And prior to Thomas and Mercer, I would say, you know, I’ve signed multiple six figure book deals. I’ve hit the New York Times seven times, all with self-published books. My traditionally published books all bombed. I mean, they did horribly. So I’ve always said my greatest success is with self-publishing and I was a huge self-publishing advocate. Then Thomas and Mercer comes along and it’s like, well, I’ll give it a try. And those books have done fan fantastic as well as my books that hit the New York Times list. I do think there is value in traditionally published books, but it all depends on what type of author you are and what your timeframe is and what your budget is and what your patience is, because it is a long slow process. And there are so many traditional published books that just get buried and never…
Danielle: It’s absolutely true. Exactly. You know, the other thing is…
Alessandra: It’s heartbreaking.
Danielle: It is so heartbreaking. And there’s a much better network right now for people that are indie authors, and that’s new too. So, like when I was looking at self-publishing, it was probably before people were doing it, you know, it was sort of a newer thing or I wasn’t doing as well as you were doing it, obviously. But anyway, you know, that’s a really valid point too.
Alessandra: Yeah, so it just depends. If you have the time, like Danielle said, you might as well explore your options. You know, if you’re not in a rush to publish — I wrote my first book and I was like, oh, like I read it over twice. Sounds good. I got to get this bad boy up and for sale. I didn’t have the patience to go through or the thick skin where I thought I could deal with a lot of rejections. And I just had no confidence in my writing. If you have confidence in writing, if you have time and you don’t mind, by all means, query agents, just see what happens. And then you can get an offer and you can take a look at it and you can talk to your friends in your writing community and they can say yes or no, but whatever you do, stay away from vanity pubs, stay away from small presses, in terms of — that charge you money to publish a book.
Danielle: Yeah, you should never pay to have … I mean, you can pay somebody to create your book for you. You know, if you’re self-publishing it, somebody is going to make you a cover and that’s all fine, but paying a publisher to create your book and publish it. And then they get all the rights, that is not a good deal.
Alessandra: Yeah. If they are getting the rights to your book and you’re paying, you know, sometimes thousands of dollars for that, that’s the one thing that I always warn authors.
Danielle: I do too. I’ve never seen one of those work out well.
Alessandra: Yeah. So we only have two minutes left, so any last minute questions, shout them out. And Mike did say, “How do you get family and friends to read your book? My network does all the “that’s nice…” thing and never follow up?” I was romance, so I never, ever wanted my friends to read my books.
Danielle: But I think my mother listens to them now. And she’s always like, oh gosh, that was just so disturbing. And I’m like, you know, I’m not really sure I want my friends and family to read my books, I say to them, you don’t have to read it, but get somebody you know to buy it. That’s all I care about. So I don’t know, I mean, I understand. It would be nice if they — they just don’t really know what to make of us, I think is most of it. So I wouldn’t feel bad about that, Mike, you’re in good company with that.
Alessandra: Yeah, and you also write some historical elements, and for some people like me, I just won’t … it’s just agonizing for me to try to read a book with historical. So, it might be that they are well-meaning, but it’s just not my genre. So yeah, it is true; it’s not contingent.
Danielle: And some people don’t want to read dark, and my books are dark and some people just don’t – they don’t want to read dark. What do I get the most out of writing? OK, so this is probably a great place to end. I would say, you know, because of how long this takes, because of how much of an investment in your life it is, it’s basically raising a child every year or two. I think you have to love it. You have to sort of feel, I think you have to feel less happy in your life when you’re not doing it. Like for me, my life is not complete unless I’m working on a book, and that can make me really, really crazy, but it also can make me really, really happy. And it’s just who I am. It’s like, if you have ask me to cut out sugar, no way. If you ask me to cut out writing, no way.
Alessandra: I always say life’s too short for me. Whenever my doctor try to get me to not drink Dr. Pepper soda, I was like, life is like …. here’s no scenario where I’m not going to drink Dr. Pepper. And there’s no scenario, like you said, where I’m not going to write. And I think a lot of people get in this business for money or for the fame, and that won’t get you through the tough parts of your book and it won’t get you through the bad days where you have a release that flops or anything else. You have to, like you said, love it.
Danielle: And you’re writing for you. You have to write for you because you just never really know where the book is going to end up, so you’re going to do it for yourself. It’s a story you have to tell.
Alessandra: I love that. Thank you so much for being here Danielle.
Danielle: It was so fun. Thank you so much for having me. I loved it.
Alessandra: If they’re interested in reading your books, where can they find you?
Danielle: Yes. I’m at daniellegirard.com. It’s spelled on the screen there, but G I R A R D.com and that has samples of all my books and everything. All 15 of them are laid out right there, so thank you.
Alessandra: I love that. Thank you so much. And if this is your first time joining us on First Draft Friday, please subscribe on either YouTube or join the Facebook group. And if you’re interested in meeting Marlowe, who is our artificial intelligence that can read and give feedback on your novel in just a few minutes, check her out at authors.ai where you can try her out for free.
Danielle: She’s brilliant.
Alessandra: I love that. Thank you all for joining us and we’ll see you guys in two weeks at another First Draft Friday.