In our 73rd First Draft Friday, I was joined by bestselling thriller author Melissa F. Miller, who shared her passion for writing in multiple points of view. With a prolific career spanning 13 years and 40-50 novels in the crime fiction genre, Melissa shared invaluable insights into her approach to writing thrillers with multiple third-person POVs, offering guidance that aspiring authors can apply across various genres.
Here are some key takeaways from my conversation with Melissa:
• Multi-POVs work across genres: Melissa believes that the technique of employing multiple points of view isn’t exclusive to thrillers. She suggests it can be applied to various genres like women’s fiction, literary fiction, and even romance.
• Choosing the right POV for the scene: Whether it’s the protagonist, antagonist, or a supporting character, she recommends deciding based on who can best tell the story at that moment. This choice adds depth to the narrative and offers readers unique insights into different characters.
• Maintaining clarity without chapter titles: While some authors opt for chapter titles to indicate the character’s point of view, Melissa relies on the narrative itself to make the transitions clear. By skillfully weaving character-specific details into the opening sentences, readers can easily identify whose perspective they are delving into, eliminating the need for explicit chapter titles.
• Building suspense through perspective switching: Melissa emphasizes that the power of multiple points of view lies in its ability to maintain tension and pace. Ending scenes with questions or mini-cliffhangers and seamlessly transitioning to another character’s viewpoint keeps readers eagerly turning the pages.
• Crafting unforgettable villains: In terms of concealing a villain’s identity, Melissa suggests using creative techniques. Instead of merely hiding the character’s name, she focuses on offering glimpses into the thoughts and motivations of the villain’s minions. This approach maintains an air of mystery while laying subtle clues that attentive readers can pick up on.
• Concluding with the main character: Melissa typically concludes her stories with the main character, providing a satisfying resolution for readers. Whether writing a series or standalone novel, she leans towards ending with the protagonist, occasionally incorporating epilogues for added closure.
It was a great discussion, one you won’t want to miss! Click below to watch our 30-minute recording and hear the questions we answered from the live audience. Keep scrolling if you’d prefer to read the transcript.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Alessandra Torre: Hi everyone, and welcome to First Draft Friday. This is episode number 73. I am your host with Authors AI. My name is Alessandra Torre: and I am joined today by Melissa F. Miller who writes thrillers of all shapes and sizes. We’ll talk a little bit about that. But, Melissa, do you want to just introduce yourself to the audience and share a little bit about yourself?
Melissa Miller: Sure. Thanks, Alessandra. And I’m really excited to be here talking about multiple points of view, my jam. So I, I am I’m a crime fiction writer. I’ve written and do write mystery, romantic suspense and various thriller subgenres-legal, medical and adventure thrillers. But I’m primarily a thriller writer, and we can talk about why I love writing thrillers the way that we’re going to talk about. But, so I’ve been writing for… Published my first book in 2011, so that’s 13 years I’ve written. I was going to count before this. 40-50. My bio is not up to date. Somewhere between 40 and 50 novels, all in the crime fiction family. I was a practicing lawyer for 15 years, so my first novels were legal thrillers because, you know, write what you know. But very few people died in my office or, like, led me on a car chase, so writing was just more fun. So here I am.
Alessandra Torre: I love that. And today, if you didn’t receive our email about this, we’re going to be talking a lot about primarily, writing in multiple third person points of view. And we will be talking about this from the thriller genre side of things. But, Melissa, do you think that this will be applicable to other genres as well?
Melissa Miller: I do, I think. Definitely women’s fiction. Literary fiction. There are mystery writers who write third-person multiple points of view. I’m thinking of Louise Penny. But she can kind of break some rules that maybe the rest of us shouldn’t. I think romance can be third person, it can be first. But I, you know, my romantic suspense or third-person dual narration. So I think you can apply it to anything you want.
Alessandra Torre: I love that. So, for those of you joining us who are newer authors and, as always with First Draft Friday, please don’t be shy. That comment section is all yours. So anyone who’s watching, if you have questions as we go or comments, you can pop them into the comment section if you’re joining us on YouTube or Facebook.
Melissa Miller: I’m going to correct myself. I guess I wouldn’t write memoir in multiple-person point of view.
Alessandra Torre: But yeah, unless you’re schizophrenic. So yeah, unless you have disassociate identity disorder. Then then go for it. But when we’re talking about third person, what we really are talking about is instead of using that, I voice you’re speaking almost from, from a watching standpoint, right, where the characters are referred to by their names. And, and then when we’re talking about different point of views for that, can you go into a little bit about, like if you start a scene, and, and maybe there’s a book of yours that we can use as a reference point? I didn’t mean to throw that on you, but if you have a book that we can use as a reference point. But if you’re starting a scene, how do you establish kind of whose point of view you’re in, even though you’re in third person point of view.
Melissa Miller: Right. No. So, yes.
Alessandra Torre: Yes to all.
Melissa Miller: This. So, you know, even when you’re writing third person, you have a main character, you have a protagonist, an antagonist. Most of my scenes, right, are written from my protagonist’s point of view because it’s her, usually her. It’s her story. But the fun thing about using multiple points of view is you can decide, like, who is the best person to tell the story of this scene. So this is an example. Sometimes the first person on the page in one of my books is going to die. Usually, I don’t start a book with my protagonist. It’s just I just don’t. At this point in a long series we all know her, we know she’s coming in. So we want to meet the players of this story. And. An example would be. So right now I’m writing the second book in my Maisie Farley series, and that book’s called Dead Man’s Hollow, and it’s coming out in the spring, summer, spring. And, the first book. And so I just reread the first book, so we’ll talk about that one because it’s top of mind. Sure. So the protagonist in that book is a former journalist named Maisie. She’s not the first character we see.
Melissa Miller: The first character we see is a woman who’s boarding a plane. I’m lying. She is the first person because it was the first book in our series. But so in that book we have Maisie, who has most of the scenes. There’s a woman whose ex-husband has died and she has to go take care of his affairs. So we see some scenes from her point of view. We see some scenes from the antagonist’s points of view. So. The first thing I need to do is figure out, like, whose scene is this? Right? Who’s the best person to tell this story? And in a thriller the reader has information that the characters don’t have. In a mystery you’re with the detective. You know what the detective knows. But in a thriller, the reader knows things that the main character doesn’t. That some characters don’t know. So it’s a chance to give the reader some information that Maisie doesn’t have. It’s also a way to humanize the villain because, you know, everyone’s the hero of their own story, right? So those scenes told from the villain’s point of view.
Now, this is sort of just a little nit of mine. I don’t like spending time with unlikable characters because if I don’t like the character I don’t want to read their book. So even if they are a psychopath, they must think they’re likable in some way. So getting inside their head with them is just a way to let the reader sort of see what this book was. That that guy’s book he’d be the hero and here’s why. Here’s what’s motivating him. So in that book Steeltown Magnolia the first scene is Maisie, and then we see this woman on a plane, and then we see, a couple at home a few nights before Christmas. And all of those people have scenes in the first 10% of the book. And then, you know, as I go along. I, I think, okay, we haven’t heard from Bella in a while. You know, we should check in with Bella. It’s a way to keep. So here’s why I love it. It’s a way to keep the tension up and the pace quick. Because you end the scene with a question or an, you know, a mini cliffhanger, and then you go to someone else’s point of view, and then you end their scene with an open question. So at the end of every chapter, you’re thinking, okay, what happens? Where? Where did this what is this key open? But then the next chapter you’re like, why is she? Why is she in the basement? It just keeps the reader always wanting to turn the pages. It also keeps me honest. I’m not a plotter, so it’s it almost imposes a structure of its own. Because you have all these people’s stories, they all are progressing along their own arc and their arcs are intersecting. Does that make sense?
Alessandra Torre: It makes yeah, that makes perfect sense. And we have some good questions and comments that are responding to you. So when you say like I start with, you know, Maisies’s point of view, you know, and then and then I move to the antagonist. Marlin said, are there, from YouTube, are there ways to inform the reader whose point of view the chapters in besides just titling each chapter with that character’s name, and do you title each chapter with the character’s name of your point of view, or do you show that point of view in other ways?
Melissa Miller: So I do not. I have not in any of my thrillers. I don’t think. I have a, I have a romantic comedic comedy that is told in first person, and each of the sisters has their own book, and they get married and at their weddings. There are three characters who we know really well. So their their names are chapter titles. I do that, but ordinarily in the ordinary course I don’t use their names. And the way you do it is exactly what you said, right? Very often in the first sentence or the first paragraph, I’ll say, you know, it was cold and snowing and everyone in Pittsburgh was ready for it to for winter to end but not Maisie. Maisie loved the snow. And so we know it’s Maisie, and she’s thinking about growing up in Georgia and she never saw snow. And then you just have to develop a different voice for every character so that when as soon as you drop into a new chapter, your reader thinks, okay. This is Tim’s chapter. This is Maisie’s chapter. And it’s usually fairly clear because they’re not always together. But when two viewpoint characters are in a scene together. You really have to. I have to kind of remind myself. This is Maisie’s scene. This isn’t Jenna’s scene. You know. So. So we’re not a person who’s struggling with fertility. We’re a woman who’s pulled employers, not paying her her payout. So, like, she’s worried about money, not her health. Jenna’s worried about her health. And then I just write with their thoughts in my head.
Alessandra Torre: So, we have. So we have great questions. And to everyone who’s asking, we are going to talk back about switching point of views and kind of how she writes on the fly like that. But, but I just want to follow this path a little bit further. So if you do have two characters that you’re representing both of their point of view throughout the story, and they are in a scene together, what dictates that this third person point of view is in this character’s point of view? What are the rules that you have to follow? Are you seeing their thoughts? Are you only aware of what that character knows in terms of information? Like how are you communicating that this is this character’s point of view?
Melissa Miller: Yes. But both of those you would. So Maisie and Jenna are in a scene together and it’s Maisie’s scene. We don’t know what Jenna is thinking in this scene and in her own scene we do. But in Maisie’s scene, we know what she’s thinking. We can see her watching Jenna’s reaction, right? She can see Jenna’s expression. Jenna can’t see her own expression. So we know what Maisie knows. We feel or we have access to what Maisie thinks and feels. And we are seeing the scene through the lens or filter that Maisie would see it in. Yeah. And so for me, I don’t head hop. I think that some people are, you know, that’s absolutely not a rule. Like you cannot break that rule. I know there are writers who break that rule and do it beautifully. But head hopping is when you have access to two people’s thoughts in the same scene. So if I need to switch to someone else’s thoughts, like if Maisie just dropped a bomb and we want to know how the other person is reacting, then I just have a scene break. Like I have a scene break, and now we’re in Jenna’s head.
Alessandra Torre: So you don’t necessarily switch chapters?
Melissa Miller: Usually I switch chapters, but if it’s short and it’s a scene and I want to keep them together for some reason, I at least have, you know, a scene break with a new header like, new drop cap.
Alessandra Torre: Yeah, that makes sense. So when you were talking about kind of you like to switch points of view to keep the story moving and also to keep you as a writer, you know, like journeying down the path. Someone said, from Facebook. That’s really interesting. Do you normally have these scenes mapped out or are you really just, “Okay, I’m back from Maisie’s point of view. What is going to happen right now? “
Melissa Miller: Yeah I don’t… So I say I’m not a plotter. I do not sit down with an outline and scene and beat. I sit down with an idea. And then I say, okay, who’s the literally who who should start this story? And then I know who the characters are and I know who’s. I know what this story’s about, but I’m not. I don’t have a plan. So a lot of times. I’ll. If I get so, because I don’t plot sometimes in the middle, things get a little messy, and I have to kind of stop, and then I’ll get out the color-coded index cards and everybody gets a color. You know, Maisie’s purple, Jenna is yellow, Tim is blue. And I lay them out and I look at my scenes and I say, oh, we’ve got a whole bunch of blue scenes in a row. You know, we probably should find out what Tim is doing and so on. That’s how I keep myself organized. Maybe. But I wanted to say another thing that is so awesome is that it. It really lets the reader kind of like get attached to all the characters, not just your main character.
Melissa Miller: Because even when your main character is not on the page, there’s someone sharing their story with them. So that’s it. But I used to, when I first started writing, worry that everybody needed equal time. And I’ve read enough thrillers to know that you can have a viewpoint character who literally has one scene and then dies. You can have a viewpoint character who shows up at the 70% mark. I wouldn’t know that until after the fact because I haven’t, you know, sketched it out. But when I was looking at Steel Town Magnolia to start my next book in the series, Dead Man’s Hollow. This book has six viewpoint characters. One of them doesn’t show up until 25%, and the other one doesn’t show up until 70. Everyone else is in there a lot, but it’s just whatever’s in service of the story.
Alessandra Torre: I also like it because it allows you to like, when you’re in a character’s head, they have a certain opinion of themselves and how they’re perceived by others, and you know what kind of person they are. And then I love, like, having the reader introduced to that perception and then seeing the character from another character’s point of view. And it and it could be very, very different, you know, in terms of what they look like or even what, you know, I mean, not that we’re talking about who, but, you know, somebody might have a very high opinion of themselves and think everyone loves them. And then you see them from another character’s point of view. And and it’s, you know.
Melissa Miller: It’s different.
Alessandra Torre: Right? Everyone thinks they’re egotistic and can’t stand them or something.
Melissa Miller: Right? Or you have someone that we meet and don’t like because our viewpoint character doesn’t like them, but then we kind of hear their story and you think, well, they’re not that bad. Yeah, yeah. It’s fun.
Alessandra Torre: 100%. So, just a second. I’m writing a note to myself, so I don’t forget this. Someone asked about kind of info dumping. I think what they’re asking is kind of. How do you catch the reader up on what has happened since they were last with Maisie, or, you know, a detective or something like that? If you’ve been in a couple of their points of view, do you pick right back up where you left that character or sometimes, do you have you progressed a week or so in time, and then how do you kind of let them know what that character has discovered or whatever in the meantime? Do you need to or is the reader smart enough and they just kind of fill in the gaps?
Melissa Miller: Sure. No, that’s a great question. So I write short scenes and short chapters. So I have a book that has. A 75,000-word book for me would have maybe 50 chapters. Like they’re short. So I trust you as the reader to keep this stuff in your head for a while. But, also. I try to make the flow organic. I think the question that gets left off in Bella’s chapter. Whatever she’s wondering about. It’s going to lead into the next person’s point of view, like, you know, connected. Right? And I don’t have big sweeping timelines. A lot of my timelines are pretty compressed. If I do have to jump forward in time, I might at the top of that chapter say, you know, two weeks later, you know, Maisie got the reports back. Blah blah blah blah.
Alessandra Torre: That makes sense. Another author on Facebook said how much head hopping then per page? Any set percentage for aspiring authors to follow or just go with character flow?
Melissa Miller: Okay. So if by if my head hopping, we mean going from one character’s inner thoughts to another character’s inner thoughts. So I would say zero per page, right, like in a scene. That’s sort of the traditional advice. No head hopping. I think, you know, Nora Roberts head hops, Louise Penny. Well, if you’re writing third person, you can always say that you are an omniscient narrator, right? And so it’s not head hopping because your narrator knows everybody’s thoughts. But I, I write close, like I write a close perspective narrator. So for me, I don’t head hop on the same page. If there’s a scene break, it’s an actual break. Like there’s a, you know, a question. There’s. We don’t get the resolution we want. Like, there’s a little disaster, and then we’re going to go on and I’ll. I’ll switch there. So I don’t maybe I’m not the right person to answer this.
Alessandra Torre: Yeah. How long do you spend in one character’s point of view before you move to the next? So you normally, though, you said you write short chapters. Are you there like 500 to 1000 words? Are you sometimes in a character’s point of view for 5000 words? What? Or does it vary just depending on the scene?
Melissa Miller: That does, I think, vary. What works for the story? Character flow. I mean I’ll have. I’ll be in someone’s point of view for anywhere from one scene to maybe three chapters. That’s not a hard and fast rule. I just think probably after three chapters with one person, you know, unless they’re traveling or locked in a closet or something, I don’t know. I would switch.
Alessandra Torre: Yeah, that that makes perfect sense. And so you do do multiple chat. I mean, you will do multiple chapters at a time in one, it’s not every time. Okay.
Melissa Miller: And yes, I would say I, I didn’t count this all the way up, but in Steel Town Magnolia the the bad guys, amongst themselves have 14 chapters. 14 scenes. Two other characters between them have 20, and all of the rest of the scenes are Maisie’s, so that’s probably like another 40 scenes, probably 40. So she would obviously have back-to-back scenes. Yeah.
Alessandra Torre: That’s a great helpful breakdown. Yeah. That’s fantastic. So kind of talking about what you were talking about with omnipresent and that sort of thing. Someone said, many of the masters use free indirect style point of view, which combines third person with the intimacy of first person, where the character gets to see that character’s internal thoughts. A lot of Nora Roberts, John Irving, Stephen King does this. Do you ever do that? And it sounds like you do do third person, but where they can see the character’s internal thoughts.
Melissa Miller: I do. What. Yes. But I am not comparing myself to John Irving, Stephen King or Nora Roberts. You just so we’re clear.
Alessandra Torre: Understood. So I had a question. And that’s when you are writing the villains or, you know, the potential villains. How do you hide their identity? And maybe you don’t. Maybe in all of your books, you know, you’re using their name and maybe their paths just haven’t yet crossed. But if I want to keep my villain a secret and, you know, try to get the reader to guess who it is, how would I hide their identity in the third person?
Melissa Miller: Okay, so I don’t do this much. The twist I put on my villains is we often have access to like a minion’s point of view, but not their bosses. Or we have access to the ultimate villain’s point of view, but nobody knows they’re the villain, and you just have to write it right carefully so that when when they find out that this is not this is a different book. Oh, Vivian was calling all the shots the whole time. If you go back and you read those scenes again with that knowledge, it’s there, right? Like it’s a really fine line to what. I know that, some of the Jack Reacher books Lee Child will have. Just won’t name them yet. I’m I’m trying to think there’s one that. There are two bad guys and they have code names. We think they were Romeo and Juliet, but it’s been a while since I read this book, and so he would refer to them that way, and we don’t find out till the end who they actually are, and that we’ve known them the whole book. So. That’s another way to do it. Yeah. You just don’t use their name or their real name.
Alessandra Torre: Yeah. And like you said, the key there. You can have the villain be a character and they just don’t realize that they’re the villain. I was envisioning something more like, oh, like he’s cutting up, you know, a corpse. So clearly he’s the villain. But how do you keep that? And I cheat with this a lot of times, and I’ll write my villains in first person point of view, especially if I’m trying to hide their gender. Because I don’t want to, you know, it’s the easiest way for me not to give it away by he or she.
Melissa Miller: Right? No, because you’re narrowing the suspect pool if you do. Right?
Alessandra Torre: Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
Melissa Miller: And you said you sometimes write first person and third person in the same book, right?
Alessandra Torre: Yeah, I actually do that a lot. For my first 15 books, I’d say. Or 20 books. My main characters were always in first person, and all of my third person, all of my other character points of view were in third person, and I didn’t do a ton. It was like yours was like a 70% main character ratio. And then the others. But I also did that because initially I wrote romance, and it was very hard for me to write from a male point of view, and it was much easier for me to write from male point of view if I was in third person. But writing first person for male felt very like, awkward for me. So, okay. Someone said. Let’s see. I just want to make sure I got. Someone said you seem to be shining Melissa Penning in different genres. Why would it be advisable for aspiring authors to write in different genres? Is that something you recommend?
Melissa Miller: So I think that a. A good marketing answer would be no, you should.
Alessandra Torre: Don’t do that.
Melissa Miller: Pick a lane and stay in it. I think that’s a resounding yeah. I. I’m an independent author because I don’t want anyone to tell me what to do. So I guess if you want to head hop, head hop, don’t let me tell you what to do. But I started out writing legal thrillers and I enjoyed them. And then I kind of wanted. I just wanted to do something a little bit different, just a little bit different. So I wrote, you know, just a suspense thriller, and I want to do something a little bit different. And I have, almost all of my thriller main characters in my series are women. But after maybe 20, 25 books, I had a male character who I really. I was like I want to tackle his point of view, which, like you, that in the beginning I was like, I’m a woman. I’m going to write women. So I have a series where the main character is a practicing Buddhist, he’s a retired forensic pathologist, and he’s nonviolent, like he’s so different from my other characters in addition to being a man. But I need that, like, I need that variety as a writer. If you are, very serious about a career, you should not take any advice from me because I kind of, you know, it was a different time when I started. My first book was in 2011. I was lucky enough to be able to stop practicing law and do this full time, which meant I had a lot of time to write. So if I write something. And I’m like, oh, this isn’t great. Okay, I’ll just go write something else. But if you’re early in your career, you shouldn’t listen to me.
Alessandra Torre: And I have to say, I did the exact same thing as Melissa. I wrote whatever I felt like. I mean, not that that’s what you did, but, you know, like there were times where I got tired of writing this. And so I wrote this and then and it is the worst thing in terms of building an audience and a market, you know, and, and creating a brand for yourself. But we as writers are creative souls. So a lot of times there is like the right thing to do and the smart thing to do. And then there is our passion and what you know in the stories that speak to us. But I am the same way. I would not advise, I would advise an aspiring author or newer author to find their niche as quickly as they can, and then write solidly in that niche and not diversify their type of books. But. Both of us are happy. I think you’re happy. I know, yeah. And you know.
Melissa Miller: Right. You kind of have to.
Alessandra Torre Because we love this.
Melissa Miller: Right? And I want to do something that fills me up. Otherwise, I’d still be practicing law. Right? So if I want to write. I wrote a book last year. I took time out of my whole schedule to write, like a traditional, English countryside closed circle mystery, sort of in the Agatha Christie style. And I just put all of my characters in there, and my husband was like, I don’t really understand why you’re writing this book. Because I want to.
Alessandra Torre: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And, we did a First Draft Friday with a bunch of cozy mystery authors, and I was like, this seems like the most fun thing to do ever is to write cozy mysteries, you know, and have so many holiday-themed events and, but, yes, we’ve gotten a little off topic. So, we have we have less than two minutes left. If you have any final questions for Melissa now is the time, Melissa, is there anything you wanted to share about writing in third person that we didn’t get to before I cut us off?
Melissa Miller: I don’t know. I feel like. I hope I came here as the ultimate hype man for a third-person multiple point of view. Like, it’s it’s really fun. I think it can be intimidating, maybe when you’re starting out, to think about having all those points of view, but it just gives you so much freedom to play.
Alessandra Torre: I do have a question. So would you.
Alessandra Torre: Have you ever, like, gone through and just written like one character’s point of view at a time, or like you’re in that character’s point of view and you have that many cliffhangers and you just kind of go ahead and write the next scene, but you’re going to move it, you know, move it down and insert some scenes in between. Or do you write as it is going to eventually be read?
Melissa Miller: So I write chronologically, my thrillers, but I’m writing. I’m doing a side project which is different from anything else I’ve ever written. And just yesterday I did what you said and I was like, that’s weird, but I needed to stay in that person’s voice for a while. Like, I needed to follow so.
Alessandra Torre: And to be consistent. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. We do have a final question. From Elaine, she said, and I love this question. Who do you like to end your stories with?
Melissa Miller: I end my stories with my main character. Always.
Alessandra Torre: Okay. Is that because you’re in a series? If it was a standalone, would you do the same thing?
Melissa Miller: I don’t know, because I’ve never written a standalone. I usually end it. Yeah. I think with my main character. Always.
Alessandra Torre: And do you do epilogue? Typically or no?
Melissa Miller: My romantic suspense. I’ll do an epilogue sometimes. Sometimes if it calls, if the story calls for it.
Alessandra Torre: And if I. But I’m gonna. Is that your main point? Your main protagonist’s point of view or third person?
Melissa Miller: Yeah, I think I have written a couple of books where we wrap up with my main protagonists, but then somebody who helped, like, I think there’s a, a, computer guy in one of my books who helps them catch the bad guy, and then he takes off to Mexico. I think I have the last, like, the epilogue him, like looking out over the ocean.
Alessandra Torre: Yeah, something like a cliff and maybe a small cliffhanger for the next book or something like that. That makes sense. All right, well, we are officially out of time, so that is a wrap. Our First Draft Friday, number 73. It’s been so much fun. Yeah. It’s nice. It’s been great. Thank you to our audience. You guys were fantastic. Such great questions and comments. And, and such great information from you, Melissa. So thank you so much. Everyone watching, if you’re watching, the replay will be back in two weeks with another First Draft Friday. And we encourage you to visit Authors.AI and check out Marlowe, who is our artificial intelligence that can, read your story in just a few minutes and provide exciting and interesting analysis on it. So check us out at Authors.AI and thank you all for coming. It’s been great.
