Literary genre is most easily defined as the type of books you write. Genre is most clearly categorized by subject matter and tone, but reader expectations also include style, feel and pacing. Genres are broken down further into sub-genres—for example, historical romance is a subgenre of romance.
Newer authors tend to ignore genre, but you should carefully consider your subgenre and research its intricacies before you start writing.
To dive in deeper into this topic, I chatted with a bestselling post-apocalyptic and urban fantasy author whose pen name is Ryan Schow on our live First Draft Friday chat. Ryan has changed genres in his career, and doing it properly launched him into bestsellerdom! Click below to watch our 30-minute discussion, where we also answered questions from the live audience. Transcript follows.
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Visit Ryan Schow’s website to learn more: ryanschow.com
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TRANSCRIPT:
Alessandra: This is First Draft Friday. I am your host Alessandra Torre from Authors AI, and I am so happy to be joined today by Ryan Schow, who is going to be talking all about bridging the gap between genres, how to write in different genres, how to transition from one genre to another, what you need to think about; this is going to be a really exciting half-hour chat. I’m so happy. Welcome, Ryan. Do you want to introduce yourself to the audience?
Ryan: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me here. My name is Ryan Schow. I write in several different genres. I started out initially in urban fantasy and I wrote 10 books there. I never had any commercial success. I thought I was going to have to stay at my day job for forever and ended up stumbling on Chris Fox’s, his YouTube page. And I started understanding that writing to market was super critical if you wanted to have any kind of commercial success. And so I started to kind of look at that and realize that I wasn’t writing to the tropes, and so that was when I made my first genre switch. I went at that point in time into post-apocalyptic fiction, just because I found that it was a rich market, there was a lot of readers, not as much material and really kind of a good grounds for me to jump into that. So I spent 27 novels in post-apoc and I’m still in there. I have an amazing group of followers. I’ve met a lot of friends. I have a nice big, well, I have two big groups that I belong to, with probably somewhere around 11,000 people in there, so it’s super fun having all the different readers that I can interact with a lot of them become friends.
Alessandra: Those discussions are interesting.
Ryan: They do get interesting, especially I have kinda messed up sense of humor that comes over in my books, and so there’s all kinds of fruit and vegetable-related conversations, which, you know, post-apoc it’s kind of fun to do that. But then after having quite a bit of success in post-apocalyptic fiction, I thought, you know, I kind of want to go back to my roots. I grew up reading thrillers, and I thought I’m in a place right now where I don’t have to, you know, write at a breakneck pace every day, 14 hours a day, so I can go into kind of passion projects, which a lot of people, when they become successful as writers, they say, okay, well, I want to do – the old adage words. If you want to be successful in writing, write what readers want to read.
And then when you get successful at that point in time, then go ahead and write what you want to write and whether it’s successful or not, it doesn’t matter. And so, that’s kind of the approach that I took going into my second genre change, which was going to vigilante justice. So from there, I’ve got three different books in there and it’s been an interesting process building from starting grounds where I was a new writer, still working full-time 15 hours a week at a job, to going to the thriller market and not feeling like I really had to work too much. So, I didn’t have the stress initially that I had, you know, in the first place, and so that’s kind of what I wanted to cover as a couple different areas. When you make a genre switch, you can make a genre switch as a newbie when maybe you’re in a field that’s not as successful, or you do like me, you just don’t write for the tropes at all.
It’s still, my Swan series that I write, I write under Ryan Schow, still my favorite series ever, it’s also my least successful series. And it happens to be the series that a lot of my post-apoc readers love the most, which was interesting to me. But the other thing too about switching genres is when you write in different perspectives, urban fantasy really taught me the strengths of writing characters. The depth of character was amazing, because I stuck with a character for 10 books. And so, when you go into the writing or when you go into the genre, the change of genre and you look at it and you say, okay, what have I got to do to be successful here? One of the first things that I found was I’m going to go read what everybody likes in terms of the readers which is kind of my first point for both newbies and for established writers is you want to find out what your readers like. I mean, readers come to you for a certain reason, so what do they want to read and what works with your books? And then the big thing that I found that gave me a big advantage in post-apoc was I started reading all the negative reviews and realizing there’s a lot of things that are missing in these books.
Alessandra: And so negative reviews, not of your books, but negative reviews of top books?
Ryan: Correct. Yeah. So what I did is, I would basically stalk the top authors, right? Not personally, I don’t go their houses, but, you know, you look at the reviews, you look at the releases, you start to learn the metrics of Amazon and go, okay, how are these people doing? Did they have this great, beautiful cover and release a dog, you know, are they sitting at the top of the charts? And so the ones that tended to be at the top of the charts that would hold, I would look at their positive and negative reviews. The negative reviews in post-apoc that I read through some of the top books way back when about five years ago was lack of character development, lack of action, it seemed to too much like a brochure, like, you know, the character bent down to tie his shoes instead of shoe lacey is Paraic cord, and Paraic cord was three foot Paraic cord that you could buy at Sporting Goods for $5.99. You know what I mean?
People didn’t want a catalog. They want a book. They don’t want to be pulled out of the story. And so in that regard, I was able to find the tropes. I narrowed it down to five different tropes, which is part of the exercise of understanding your genre is what are the tropes? You have to write to the tropes because readers come in expecting a specific story. Now, you can tell it with your own voice and you can tell whatever you want, and you should have your own advantage, but there are certain things that they expect. And if you hit that, they’ll keep reading and if not, you start to lose your audience. And that was why I switched genres the first time.
Alessandra: Let me jump in for a minute because it’s interesting when you say tropes. So I’m from a romance background. I started out writing romance. I now write psychological thrillers, but I do a lot of work in… a lot of my audience is romance authors. And I always had this thought that tropes was really romance focus, right? Because we have so many tropes, you know, secret pregnancy, you know, friends to enemies, lovers or whatever, so what would be like an example of a few tropes in post-apocalypse?
Ryan: Well, when I looked at the different things, when I looked at all the different elements of post-apoc and I said what things do I have to have in, in these novels? One of the first ones is it needs to be EMP fiction. And the reason that an electromagnetic pulse which is, you know, the grid goes down, a lot of the readers want to imagine that everything goes down and are they going to be able to be prepared for this. So, a lot of the readers imagine themselves in these situations and say, how well would I do? So EMP fiction seems to be the most likely area that a lot of readers can kind of get behind, so writing an EMP fiction was one of the big tropes. Some of the most important things that I just lumped in there because, you know, I wasn’t teaching anybody or talking to anybody about this before was, I looked at said, okay, well, we’ve got to have good character development. People don’t like these two-dimensional characters. They don’t want plastic care. They want someone that actually feels and, you know, makes mistakes and reflects.
Alessandra: Human.
Ryan: Exactly. And then there’s the action element. There’s not enough action for a lot of people. I come from a very heavy martial arts background. I’ve got a couple of second-degree black belts, and so, you know, I know gun and knives and any number of different weapons, street tactics, I’ve taught for years rolled with some fantastic black belts in multiple areas, whether it’s weapons or whether it was hands. I’ve got a lot of experience there, so I was able to bring that into this particular genre and same with the thriller series. So for me, my stuff is fairly action-oriented and it gets into fairly quickly. I might have created a bunch of blood-thirsty readers, and I’ll pay for that one day, but yeah, I do heavy action.
Alessandra: So tropes is kind of like elements, elements that are necessary or that are appealing to readers that would cause them to want to pick up and keep reading your book.
Ryan: Exactly. And so, you have the EMP fiction, one of the tropes is that you are basically getting from one place to another. And in the process of getting one from one place to another, you tend to run into, you know, people who would run into problems, all kinds of problems, the way you can stack on, the better. So, you know, having people trying to get from point A to point B, to see family or to get home is a really big trope. And then there are some little nuances to that I picked out, which was, you know, you never used the Lord’s name in vain and don’t kill the dog.
Alessandra: Or the cat. I got in trouble for killing a cat. Okay, so I interrupted you on your journey. So when you made the switch to post-apoc, that was the research you did. And then you started to talk about when you switched into vigilant justice thrillers, did you follow kind of that same path?
Ryan: Yeah, I did. So one of the big things that you have to do is you have to create an audience. I mean, most of us who’ve been writing for a while, we look at it and say, marketing tends to be the one thing that will make you successful or not. And you can write a really good book, but if you can’t get enough people to look at it, you really have a problem, which is, you know, you’re trying to split your day job from writing to being successful. And I personally don’t think that you can really hit the higher levels of success until you are writing full time. Other people have proved me wrong and that’s okay, I hope they continue to. But by and large, at least for me, when I left and it was scary for me to leave, I left $150,000 year job to do this. And, you know, I had just started hitting some success. And so it was really scary for me, especially being, you know, by and large, the breadwinner and living in California, where everything’s expensive, you have to really find as many people as you can as quickly as you can. And so, I found that some of the things that I used initially switching over from urban fantasy into post-apoc, I started using them as well in the thriller series and that big difference.
I didn’t initially market that series to my reader base. I wanted to kind of test that with some of the readers in thriller first and also I use a pen name. I use RB Schow, as opposed to Ryan for the algorithms. And I noticed that you do the same thing too. But I wanted to find out how the thriller market responded to this book, The Tears of Odessa. The Tears of Odessa did really, really well. And then I did a follow-up with The Beast of Juarez, and I just recently released The Betrayal of Prague. And in those books, I’ve started to make a transition where I felt more comfortable in that genre and I started to do advertising. So one of the first things that I did that you can do as a newbie, but also as someone who’s established is you really want to get reviews where you want the social proof. You need social proof to be able to get to that place where readers accept you.
I was listening to an interview with Tim Tigner who writes in this genre and he’s a very nice guy. Very articulate and I’ve read some of his books and I quite enjoy him. One of the things he said is that you need to have about three to four to five books into the series or into a series or into the genre in this particular one thriller. And you want to hit that benchmark of about a thousand reviews in the first book, before you really start to push that commercial success. And by and large, I would agree with him, so I’ve been thinking about how do you push yourself up to that area.
Alessandra: A lot of readers.
Ryan: Yeah, you need a lot of readers and you need a lot of reviews. And so, I’ve been running third-party ads, like bargain books, ENT, Robin reeds, you know, Fussy Librarian. And when you do that, you bring in a lot of readers in that area and you can kind of see what your books are, where they’re excelling and where you might need to adjust. So as you build up, that’s another thing that you can use when you switch genres is, it’s an inexpensive way to rank your book high, so you get a lot of natural views. It kicks your page reads up because now you’re getting a really good sales percentage or closing percentage from people come to your page; for the advanced readers, you know what I mean, for the new ones, sorry, that’s a longer conversation, but these are all kind of the metrics that you’re…
Alessandra: Specifically talking about putting it on sale for 99 cents and highly publicizing on sale.
Ryan: Yeah. And sometimes it’s good if you have two books, like I recently put Tears of Odessa on sale for 99 cents with the Beast of Juarez, which was book two for 2.99. And that really pushed a lot of sales through, you know, books two and three, and so those have a good start at this point in time. And so in kicking that off, for me, I don’t have really much pressure to succeed in this, but it’s actually succeeding well. I’ve somehow attracted the attention of a really good Hollywood producer that is looking at Tears of Odessa in Hollywood. He’s also looking at the last war series, which is my first post-apoc, and both of those are being shopped in Hollywood right now. So, with hitting the tropes right, it’s funny because there’s been all kinds of other ways that you can build your series; through other people seeing it, interviews like this, I’ve had a number of different interviews that have, you know, put me into positions that I’ve was quite surprised at. And I think as you build your genres, people take notice, and that’s another element is that as people begin to take notice, they begin to bring you into the fold. And this is where the power of other authors and really building friends within your genre helps you excel. You can do this alone if you’re an isolationist and you just want to do this.
Alessandra: It’s so much harder, it really is. It’s so it’s harder, yeah.
Ryan: It is. But you know what, sometimes you really kind of… you really make it that way because you’re always thinking, how do I succeed? How do I succeed? And it’s of course, how do I get more writers? How do I write better books? Writing more books – there’s a number of different ways to succeed in this business, but really having friends and having groups that help push, or you can do, you know, mailers together, mailing lists together. Those mailing list swaps are important, and having a good community of writers is big because we all help each other out. I mean, that’s the one thing that – well, I love a lot of things, but one of the things that I love most about writing is this independent writing community really supports itself. I came from a highly competitive world. I spent the bulk of my life in sales and so, we were always competing and I can’t get that out of my system, know that I want to quite frankly, but it served me well. But in terms of competition, we don’t really compete with each other to a degree.
Alessandra: A reader can buy five books in a week, you know, so they don’t have to… Alessandra.
Ryan: They can read five books in a week.
Alessandra: We have a great question from Nikki and this, if you could touch on this and also kind of talk about juggling two pen names and how you communicate that to your readers. So Nikki said, how did your loyal readers from your groups react when you switched genres?
Ryan: That was going to be my next point. Great question, Nikki. So, not the way I expected. I was scared to bring like my post-apoc series or my urban fantasy series into post-apoc because as I thought, these people are going to hate this book. This is about like, or this series, this is about an insecure little girl who’s got body dysmorphic disorder who through DNA modification changes her into a weapon of mass destruction over nine books or 10 books. And now I’m in post-apoc where I’ve got a lot of folks that just don’t read stuff like that. So, people kind of happened upon it and they mentioned it into my group, which is a big post-apoc group with my private one with like 15 or 1600 people in there, and I’m like, oh my God.
Alessandra: And just to clarify, both of those are under your name? They’re both under Ryan, right?
Ryan: Yes.
Alessandra: So you were keeping the two worlds different? You had…
Ryan: I wasn’t having conversations about it. It is what it was. So, yes, I was keeping it to myself. And nothing stays yourself when you’ve got books under these, because when people read you and they love you, they want to read all the stuff that you have, which is one thing about being a good writer. There’s people that say, all you need is good marketing and a good cover and a good blurb. And that’s not the case. If you want to develop readership over years, you need to write good books. And so that being my first series, I was like, oh man! So the people that read that, The Swan series from post-apoc have loved it. I had moments where I started to introduce it because I had Savannah, who’s my main character in the Swan series. She crossed over into my post-apoc series and people didn’t know who she was or why she was in there, but she’s kind of one of those enigma characters. And so, as I introduced her, my people who love The Swan series were like, oh my God, Savannah’s in there. And so that becomes kind of a thing. Because of who she is and who she becomes in my urban fantasy series, it’s possible for her to be there. But I’ve also introduced her to a large degree inside my thriller series, and she’s carried a pretty big role, which has been a lot of fun. These are things you can do as an independent author that, you know, in some cases it may get edited out if you go through traditional publishing. They responded pretty well, but it wasn’t huge. And so I thought I’m going to get into the thriller series and I’ll be able to bring a lot of people over.
Well, I was really surprised because post-apoc is kind of like this horrific world that befalls you. And what comes about is like half horror and half thriller. So when you bring, you know, three different genres together and say, okay, this is primarily post-apoc, then there’s thriller, and then you have horror because it’s scary. It’s very scary.
Alessandra: It’s dark.
Ryan: I basically pulled thriller out of that and said, okay, I’ve got a big thriller base because I’m action-oriented in my stories, I’ve got a good background to write this because I understand street tactics and weapons and all kinds of different things. And so, when I came in, I was really surprised that not as many people came over as I thought. They’re starting now to catch on, because my readers who did follow me over are saying so many nice things about the books, and so it took a little time. So I would say if you do want to bring them over, that’s critical because when you initially write your new series in your new genre, you want to keep but closely related if you can, to your existing genre so that you can bring some of those people over, even the hesitant ones a little bit later.
Alessandra: It’s not a giant jump.
Ryan: Yeah. Like you had a big jump and I’m reading one of your books right now, The Ghost Writer, which is really good by the way. Not a plug, but yes.
Alessandra: Here it is.
Ryan: Yes, there it’s. I didn’t do a plug, I promise, but I really am reading it. So what I’m finding is like, okay, depending on how your romance is and I didn’t read your romance .o I don’t know if you had mystery elements in there, psychological thrill elements in there, but if you have some of those elements in there where you’re carrying that particular trope, then you can move that over into a mystery. Thriller and post-apoc translated into thriller, you know, vigilante justice, that was a connecting thread. So if you have a connecting thread, Nikki, I think that they’ll respond better. But the other thing too is hopefully you’ve established some sort of beta reader group because the beta readers are fantastic. And this is something I didn’t have when I was moving over initially is I didn’t have a huge audience in my Swan series that I began to develop in my post-apoc series. And so, 27 books later in post-apoc series, I’ve still got a pretty good base of people from my 10 books in the Swan series. And now I’ve got three books in my Atlas Hardgrove series; he’s my main character.
The beta readers help me – first of all, they help me flesh out a lot of the grammatical or spiraling stuff before I send it to my formal editor. And then once it gets to her, it’s taken care of, but then the reviews come in right away. You really need to establish that, so you don’t have… like, I wrote my first book Swan, and I was so excited about it, I’m like, man, this is going to be my career, this is where things change for me. And, you know, the things that we all kind of hope for start writing a book. And the first thing that came in was a one-star review and I was crushed. I was like, oh, are you freaking kidding me? So, I really had to dig myself out of a hole with that series from the get-go. So I realized that having a group of readers who are loyal fans that want to kind of walk this publishing journey with you, first of all, I love those people. And second of all, they really help you launch because they give you social proof right out of the gate. And so by having your core group of readers, whether it’s 15 or 20, I keep 25 is about what I keep, having them go through that book lets you know how your other readers are going to switch over, but it also gives you confidence in making the switch.
And then those people, a lot of times too, will talk to your other readers about why your new series is great. So again, now you’re creating a reader thread. So, having kind of that structure will help you make an easier transition to genres. And, you know, we may look at genres and say, okay, well, I’m going to stay in post-apoc forever. Well, there’s only so many storylines that you can have because you’re grounded in reality, you’re grounded. There’s only so many ways the world’s going to end, right?
Alessandra: And you’ve written 27 novels there already, so that’s…
Ryan: Yeah, I’ve written 27. I’ve got covers for five more. I’ve got covers for a couple of thriller series. So I’ve got everything kind of established. I’ll continue to write in post-apoc because I love writing in that world and I love, you know, creating characters and I’ve got such a fantastic reader base. And I’ll build out thriller and just write, you know, two or three books a year in that regard. So I tend to write about eight books a year, sometimes nine and I want to slow down, but I can’t. I’m taking like… I was supposed to take like four months off. It’s not going to happen. I’m like two months into it and going crazy going, I got to write.
Alessandra: I don’t want to interrupt you, but we, we only have six minutes left and we have a lot of questions. So we’ll try to, for anyone commenting, we’ll try to, yeah, rapid firearm. So Margaret said, do you think your writing style changes between each genre and is that a conscious change?
Ryan: Yes, I do. And it is a conscious change. You know, if I’m writing from the perspective of a 16-year-old girl in urban fantasy, that’s going to be different than kind of a hardened guy from Tennessee, who’s a prepper and post-apocalyptic fiction. And then, you know, writing from the perspective of a cop in my thriller series, my voice does change. And the way I think of it is you you’re kind of an actor on stage, but instead of your stage being, you know, a live performance or on video, it’s on the page. And so in many ways, you know, you have to become the character and you know, hopefully, you don’t ever get lost in that. You can, but yeah, switching up the voices are different and you learn a lot from that. You learn a lot from writing other genres that make all of, you know, your writing and all your genres better. So, good question, Margaret.
Alessandra: And she also asked, do you think it’s necessary to use pen names for each genre? And I kind of want to piggyback because we had another commenter who asked if initials were a conscious decision for both of us and would we recommend end using initials? You made the decision to use a different pen name with thriller and was that more for algorithm purposes or to…?
Ryan: Yeah, you don’t have to. In fact, I had kind of a lengthy conversation making this transition with James Rosone, who’s a friend, a good friend of mine, and did one of the earlier shows with you on beats. He’s done a good job of moving from military thriller to science-fiction thriller and connected his universes and used the same name and those are two different audiences. And so he’s done well at it. It hasn’t really messed up his algorithms. I’ve made the conscious decision to switch. And I don’t know that it’s a good thing or a bad thing. I think that when I go to the heavy-duty marketing that I’ll roll through in that series, once I hit about four or five books, we’ll kind of see how that algorithm affects me when I’m picking targets for Amazon. So yeah, right now I made the conscious decision, but you don’t have to.
Alessandra: Yeah. And for me, I had an early traditional publisher who dictated that I use AR Torre for an erotic thriller series that I was doing. And that was my first step into thrillers, you know, when I was solidly in romance. And so then when my next publisher wanted to do, when I really wanted to be straight, psychological suspense, no sex, no whatever, they said, okay, we want another pin name. And I said, I’m not having three pen names, I just not doing it. So if you want another pen name, we’re going to have to use AR Torre. And I don’t necessarily recommend using initials because it is hard to like find someone on social media when it’s initials and often searching because some people put spaces between the initials, some don’t, but it does do a great job of kind of a reader going, oh, I think a AR Torre and Alessandra are the same person and probably with Ryan. So, that’s the good thing about initials.
Ryan: Yeah, I do have, you know, and a lot of people that know me from post-apoc will leave comments saying, oh, this is a good book, Ryan or Ryan, you know, they make reference to that, and so people kind of figure that out.
Alessandra: And we do try to stay strictly craft, but being said; Camila from YouTube said, can you explain just what we’re talking about when we say algorithms?
Ryan: Oh yeah. Okay, so algorithms is kind of the way that Amazon markets. It’s the same thing the way that, you know, Google gives you the different things in your search. It’s basically a way that through your search, you can find what you want. And so, the algorithms are kind of the behind-the-scenes machinations that people really want to try to understand, but never really can understand because it’s super detailed. There are people that have taken cracks at it. Like David Goghan does a pretty good job at that. And algorithms for me in this case is, I want to know how I can rank high enough and have enough, I guess quick closes, like someone goes and looks at your blurb and says, oh, I love it and I want to read it when you have one person going a day and they buy your book right away, you have a hundred percent closing your ratio. If you have two people go on and look at your blurb in a day and only one of them buys , so you have a 50% closing ratio. So the higher closing ratio you have on your page, on your cells, lets Amazon know that you’ve got a successful book in terms of people reading your blurb, seeing your cover and seeing you and wanting to read your stuff. And so, as they begin to track more sales for you, they feel more comfortable referring you to the Kindle Unlimited audience, which is being paid for page reads. And that has for me become a pretty big source of income. It’s about 70 to 80% of all of my income comes from page reads. So having Amazon refer me to their extremely large base of Kindle Unlimited readers has helped me be pretty successful in this business. Hopefully, that helps.
Alessandra: Yeah. It’s kind of like when you have that new pen name, it’s like a blank slate. That name is not affected by all the buying history and similar books of your other titles. It’s kind of starting fresh so that you can build all thriller-related connections to Amazon and to other retailers. So, we are out of time, but I did want to get to one last question from Michael and he actually was a past guest on the show, so hi, Michael. And he says that he writes… So Michael writes historical fiction, but he does publish other authors’ books that are in other genres. Do you think that stepping out of your genre and writing other genres can make you a better author?
Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. It’s a good question. And that’s one of the things that I didn’t expect that was a really nice surprise is that when I went back after writing my first Atlas Hargrove thriller, The Tears of Odessa, my post-apoc really improved, and it was shocking. And I think what it was is, you look at it and say, okay, my current market understands me, they understand kind of how I write and they’ve accepted me that way. When you go into a thriller series, which you now go to, you know, a different genre, your readers expect something completely different. And James Rosone scared me silly on this. He says, they’re not going to give you any quarter. You better be a hundred percent right. Your book better not have any errors. And I’m like, oh crap. So, I really dug into it with that mindset. And so when I came back into writing the next series, which I wrote a series of post-apoc in between the first and second Atlas Hargrove books, that series was much better, only because now those areas that I didn’t have to be super grading, which was a thriller element. I brought that into post-apoc and it made a huge difference. I think what it does is it rounds you out as a writer. And if you can write in a lot of different genres, then you can bring in the proper tropes, build your strengths as a writer, and go from there and be more successful. So yeah, I think that writing in other genres does help you out as a writer overall. So hopefully that answers your question.
Alessandra: I agree with that. I don’t write a lot of romance now, but I always have. If I need to introduce a love story or I need to really show a connection between people or, you know add that ad chemistry, I’ve got all of those in my wheelhouse so I can just jump in and grab them. Well, if they’re interested in reading your books, where would you suggest they start?
Ryan: Yeah, probably Amazon. So you can go into Amazon under Ryan Schow as my author name and you’ll find all my post-apocalyptic fiction there. My urban fantasies there as well. And then if you want to read the thriller series, it’s under RB Schow. People ask what’s my middle name, I say books; Ryan Books Schow. That’s not it, but RB Schow is where you’ll find the other Amazon.
Alessandra: And you got a different URL or a different website?
Ryan: No, it’s on Amazon as well.
Alessandra: Okay. But as far as a website, do you have a website?
Ryan: Oh yeah, ryanschow.com. And I don’t have my thriller series on there. I’m having separate website built for that right now, but I do have my post-apoc and urban fantasy there.
Alessandra: Perfect. All right. Fantastic. And thank you guys for joining us. Stay tuned if you want to watch more First Draft Fridays; they come every other Friday. And if you’d like to check out Marlowe, she is our artificial intelligence who loves fiction novels and can help you improve yours. You can check her out at authors.ai. Thank you, Ryan. It’s been fantastic to have you, and we will see you guys in two weeks.
Ryan: Bye guys.
